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MUD Meeting, December 3, 2014


  • Population is low, Mreh describes three types of players that will be drawn in by different means.
    1. The person that's already here, playing the MUD.
    2. The person that used to play here, but has left for some reason.
    3. The person that has never played Dune before, or, possibly, any MUD.
  • First type of player stays because they love the place, or because there's something to do.
  • Second type of player used to like it here, left for some reason.
  • Third type of player has never been here, needs some sort of draw to come and stay.

Serverside Gagging Project

  • By classifying each message with a list of types, players will be able to choose what they see reducing the amount of spam.
  • Has received much positive feedback from IMG, where it has been mostly implemented.
  • Also helps low-bandwith situations, because messages that aren't sent to your client to be gagged … aren't sent to your client in the first place.
  • May draw back older players who once loved the MUD, now can only play via their mobile devices during commute.


  • Main idea: a player registers a number of alternate characters to their main account and we flag them as bots.
  • Bots are safe until some level, suggested level 20.
  • Once a bot hits the level threshold, it is set free kill, which means that anybody, of any level, for any reason, can attack it.
  • Bots that die are awarded a short (proposed one hour) grace period where they are unable to be killed again. One hour might be too long at higher levels, may have to reduce this invulnerability time based on level.
  • A bot must have a semi-active real player logged in to receive comments/complaints. A bot without that real player near the monitor will be punished.
  • PKing a bot offers no reward. That would be far too abusable.
  • Once flagged as a bot, there is no going back to being a 'regular' player. You do not get to reap the rewards of your code killing mobs non-stop without some fear of being attacked.
    • Note that there is no rule saying that you must play a tagged bot using scripts. The bot is still a character you can log into via your client. You can still run that character around the MUD as normal and kill mobs. You do have to still have a “real” player logged in and all other rules still apply, but if you want an avenue to a fast level 200, glevel 100 Fremen, it's available.
  • A non-flagged bot being discovered as a bot warrants a serious penalty.
    • Proposed: first offense, character is flagged as a bot, the interaction is logged via 'punish' against the main.
    • Proposed: second offense, character and all associated alts are deleted.
  • This would be presented on the honour system (you have to self-register your bots), and also as a work-in-progress, with the rules subject to change at any time, up to and including the discontinuation of the system.


  • Main idea: a player registers a number of alternate characters to their main account.
  • A player can have a set number (proposed two) of real players logged in concurrently.
    • It was suggested that if you have additional real players logged in, you should not also have bots logged in.
  • All real players must be human-controlled. That is, not bots.
  • Alts are registered toward a main character, exactly how bots are, and punishments are applicable toward mains as well as the specific alt.

Other Things That Came Out of the Meeting

  • The 'end-game' gexp curve is too steep.
  • The proposal of an ascension/remort system.
    • Mreh doesn't know what an appropriate remort reward would be.
  • Achievements.
    • Cheevos are silly, but having a main character to collect them would be interesting.
    • An achievement daemon (for managing who has which achievements) would be pretty simple to write.
    • It's the actual 'determining which things merit achievements and how to track them' that is tricky.
  • Re-allowing 'kill' triggers in the same room.
    • After sleeping on it, Mreh is considering the following:
      • You can automatically enter a 'kill' type command (any command that initiates a combat) within some timeframe (thinking 10 seconds) of killing a previous foe, assuming you have not left the room you started the initial fight in. This means that you cannot cause the mob to leave the room, chase it in, and use this new room as the basis for your kill trigger, or leave the room and have the mob follow you in, and use this new room as the basis for your kill trigger.
  • We need more high-level areas. Mreh commented that if there were more high-level players, there would be impetus to create more high-level areas (or to raise the levels on existing areas).

Commentary and Discussion

From Maverick:

OK. I really like the idea of double logging. Whether it be my Atreides character killing with Maverick or logging my IMG Character as well (building that one while playing my good old go-to.) That's cool fun. I play at work mostly and its a nice break from work for me…but I can almost never play 100 percent attention (or even 50 % attention to Dune.) I might start a Tleilaxu or maybe pick up my HM (not all logged but to spread it out some.) This is a great way to artificially build a player base…a user logs in - sees 20 people logged and is like…boom!

Hey Mreh - if this goes through, does that mean you'll start a character? :)

Being able to Kill people's bots would be super fun and I would love to have someone make bots though I think we should impose a pkrange for them similarly to the normal one now - 50 lvls or whatever. It would be no fun to kill some lvl 20 bot…though if there was a lvl 20 bot, I would create a level 50 character for the sole purpose of killing them. That would be fun :) Oh and I'll make a “bot” character and hope someone tries to kill it…yeah…this will be fun :)

For me the single most thing you can do to improve game play is implement more areas. I have a lot going on in my life and I sucked at coding but if we could get someone who is good at code to implement my Ginaz area - that would be cool.

A major issue is that NPCs are too easy for players. Its almost impossible for me to die to a single NPC. If we could raise NPC levels to 1000 that would be cool.

End Maverick


  • I have a character, and I'm still not likely to play him.
  • You are alright at coding, you just need some practice.
  • NPC levels are able to go well above 1000, but there's no impetus to create such mobs, see the comments (and the log) for more details.
  • I can see the point about preferring an extended PK range regarding bots over free kill, and am willing to consider that route if we allow bots and people are having problems getting them off the ground. The main reason I think they should be free kill is if some bot is monopolizing an area, a higher level guildie can come by and clear out the offending bot for a lower level player who wouldn't be able to regularly do anything about it.
  • I don't think people are going to go on an all out bot hunt (I don't expect someone to do a Gty victory lap), but I think it would add an additional layer of challenge to the bot creators.

From Phil:

I left comments on the agenda items already, so I won't rehash them other than to say that (if both are implemented) the line between botting and multilogging will need to be very clearly drawn. I do want to add my thoughts on the miscellaneous points brought up in the meeting:

  • Gexp curve is fine. With uncapped glvls it is basically necessary if we want any semblance of balance. If the grind gets too dull then log an alt.
  • I can't think of any good reason to implement remorts. Uncapped (g)levels replaces any need for it, in my opinion.
  • Heh. Achievements.
  • Not really sure why this needs to be brought back. If people want to bot, let them make a bot.
  • Totally agree, we don't have enough areas for big chars. And by 'big' I really mean anything over level 100. We obviously have the code available to scale mobs' strength to player level (e.g. wurms) so why not implement this in more areas? Frankly, there are many awesome areas which were made back in the day when level 30 was a big deal. Converting just one or two of these per planet would give a good variety.


Wurms don't scale to player level in the way that is important though. Wurms have their level set to that of the person who enters the room, but the challenge does not scale equally. Ravien was commenting earlier today on [wiz] that there was a level 27 Honoured Matres fighting (and surviving) against Terro's level 200+ mobs, and then Paradox and I shared some words on the subject as well. It's simply not enough to go to an area and write “alter 50 to 250 in *.c” to change all of the set_level (50 + random (10)) to set_level (250 + random (10)). Sure, it will mean you get more experience from the mob (because it's now somewhere between level 225 and 275 [I changed set_level to automagically adjust mobs +/- a percentage of the set value a long time ago]) and you get to fight it for longer because it has a higher Con, which means more hit points, but it doesn't mean an increased challenge, it just means another auto-farmable gexp shithole that you can idle in like you could never idle before.

And before you say something like, “Well, that means you clearly have to change defense,” I know, and I don't have the time to do a complete overhaul of the defense systems because it also requires rewriting weapons, armour, MUD attacks, and guild defense, pretty much at the same time.

As for bringing back kill-next triggers, I can see an argument for it from the people who don't know how to write a bot/don't want to bot but do want to clear rooms, and if it enables more people to play, I have to consider it.


Dune Mudders,

As a new Dune player, I would first like to thank the creators for putting together a great Mud and going through the work of maintaining it/fixing problems/responding to player crises’/and listening to complaints as they try to satisfy the masses. Me and my brother have enjoyed our experience thus far on the Mud and it has been due to the world of Dune and the great playerbase. So, with that being said, there are a couple thoughts that me and my brother would like to touch on from the recent Mud Meeting:

1. Multi-Logging: This is probably the aspect of the MudMeeting which got me the most excited. Im a new player and I would like the opportunity to explore other guilds while still establishing my main. I would like the idea of fast tracking by being able to party for the opportunity of exploring and figure out which guilds I would like to settle into. My brother would like to second this as he is a very indecisive person (Haha!). I feel like this could benefit new players also who are interested in trying out multiple characters and help those characters grow by partying with each other.

I understand people’s resentment toward it, but I would like a response of who this honestly hurts?? I don’t want a philosophical response of how this affects the integrity of the Mud based on past morals because times are changing. MUD’s are sadly unpopular and we can all work harder at getting our friends to play instead of complaining about younger characters wishing to fast-track.

2. Botting: No opinion. Personally, I think everyone bots to some degree if they don’t gag. There is a lot of text in this mud and its easy to miss conversations *shrugs*.

Kain inputs

First off love seeing all the players logged on as of late!! I'm not sure if it's the conversation or the new ideas that have brought players back but I am glad to see them. My thoughts Multi-log. I was against now I am excited of the prospect of it, it opens up alot of ideas. Limits on this i'm not sure where I sit on this 2 has been thrown around I feel it should be higher, but should be limited, 4 would be the max I would go I guess. Bots, while I don't at this point have any desire to make or have a bot, I think there are a number of people who would love this, I do agree with there being a non bot char logged in and semi active at the same time. I think there will have to be some limit on killing them time limits after or what not. perhaps the same kind of level spread system there is in normal pk but with much quicker spreads on survival time and also larger spread for being a bot. Rekill triggers I think that with the rules implied it would be fine to have.

Dune mud is a great Mud! I hope with some of these changes we can open up a new niche for some players that like that style of play. Don't forget to vote for Dune!

meeting_comments_20141203.txt · Last modified: 2014/12/06 22:23 by kain